I get tired of the whole 4th edition MMO mantra B.S. If it plays like a video game, it plays closer to a turn based tactical rpg then an mmo, the only reason it gets the stupid comparison is the lame ass calling classes controllers, leaders, ex... All 4th edition was guilty of is trying to describe its rules in a manner that people who played MMOs might easily grasp. The system itself plays completely different, Before two months ago I realy, unfairly thought 4th was going to be a big festering pile of donkey doo doo, I actually bought the 3 core books on ebay cause someone I was buying some 2nd edition stuff from had them for sale cheap and I decided what the hell why not. About 3 weeks ago I got bored and started reading them and they totally blew my mind. Mechanically 4th edition is my favorite edition bar none, I have already sunk about 500 in books for it and plan on spending even more. They finally solve the balance issue behind the arms classes and the magic ones, allow magic users to do more then cast a spell or two a day starting out,give fighters more to do then just, ah i attack, ah i attack. Now if i could just figure out how to run a game online all would be right with the world.
I think most people who don’t like 4e probably didn’t give it a chance & I doubt many of them cut their teeth on Basic or Advanced D&D. If you play with all the exploits, powers, feats & skills of 4e then go to AD&D (1e) it is so boring or you have to modify the rules for when somebody tries to jump across a pit or negotiate with a merchant. Yes you would “role play” that stuff and the DM would decide the outcome but you didn’t have a skill you knew you were better at than the rest of your party. You didn’t have choices in how to build your character other than race selection. All Paladins pretty much turned out the same way & while Magic Users could choose different spells most of them were pretty useless. You sort of have to have some kind of offensive spells like Magic Missile or Sleep or you are just missing with you dagger or staff in combat. Combat while longer and more complex is way more fun in 4e with lots to do. In Advanced your magic user has access to a few limited spells that were memorized for that day & fighters attack over and over with the same weapon dealing damage (usually with no other effects) until a monster is killed. A natural 20 isn’t even a critical it doesn’t do extra damage or give any advantage beyond scoring the hit.
I think if my 4e play group decided to try AD&D for a session they would be off it faster than kobold’s head when a vorpal sword is swinging around!!
Yeah, I am fairly new to 4th edition but from what I have been seeing so far is that it way opens things up for more different options for non-casters to have things to do besides just the usual, Ill Attack... Ill Attack.., Ill Attack.. that goes on over and over again. I was talking to a friend that was giving me the usual "its an MMO" argument but I just don't get that. for one if its being played with minis and stuff it would be more like a turned based strategy game, and second how can mor options make it less interesting, I mean my arguments are purely theoretical at this point i haven't had a chance to play it yet, i didn't climb down this rabbit hole tell a couple of weeks ago but damn sense i started reading these rules I am super impressed and have already spent like a couple a hundred bucks grabbing all the rules from it, and I intent on spending quite a bit more. This has been the first time I have gotten ahold of a version of D&D and been all I MUST HAVE EVERYTHING.4e really is an amazing creature, its a shame it was so maligned.
I feel that the early editions of the game were really a DMs game. The DM had a lot of say in how fun the experience was. Most of the gameplay rules for AD&D are in the DMG, not the PHB where we find them today. The players were at the mercy of the DM's mood/ability.
The evolution of the game has shifted the responsibility to the players. Give the players the tools to make interesting characters so that they are in control. Instead of the player asking to do something and hoping the DM says 'yes', the player has explicit things they can do and the dice decide how it works out.
The role of the DM is now less about controlling every aspect of the game and more about creating interesting situations for the players to work through.
That is not to say that the DM still is not playing a huge role at the table, but it is very different from those early years.
4e really leaned into this by ramping up all the things that players could do. Even a fighter with a sword is no longer limited to just slashing at an enemy each round. They have a ton of cool things they can do every chance they get. And 4e gives the DM a ton of tools for creating those amazing game situations.
I get tired of the whole 4th edition MMO mantra B.S. If it plays like a video game, it plays closer to a turn based tactical rpg then an mmo, the only reason it gets the stupid comparison is the lame ass calling classes controllers, leaders, ex... All 4th edition was guilty of is trying to describe its rules in a manner that people who played MMOs might easily grasp. The system itself plays completely different, Before two months ago I realy, unfairly thought 4th was going to be a big festering pile of donkey doo doo, I actually bought the 3 core books on ebay cause someone I was buying some 2nd edition stuff from had them for sale cheap and I decided what the hell why not. About 3 weeks ago I got bored and started reading them and they totally blew my mind. Mechanically 4th edition is my favorite edition bar none, I have already sunk about 500 in books for it and plan on spending even more. They finally solve the balance issue behind the arms classes and the magic ones, allow magic users to do more then cast a spell or two a day starting out,give fighters more to do then just, ah i attack, ah i attack. Now if i could just figure out how to run a game online all would be right with the world.
I think most people who don’t like 4e probably didn’t give it a chance & I doubt many of them cut their teeth on Basic or Advanced D&D. If you play with all the exploits, powers, feats & skills of 4e then go to AD&D (1e) it is so boring or you have to modify the rules for when somebody tries to jump across a pit or negotiate with a merchant. Yes you would “role play” that stuff and the DM would decide the outcome but you didn’t have a skill you knew you were better at than the rest of your party. You didn’t have choices in how to build your character other than race selection. All Paladins pretty much turned out the same way & while Magic Users could choose different spells most of them were pretty useless. You sort of have to have some kind of offensive spells like Magic Missile or Sleep or you are just missing with you dagger or staff in combat. Combat while longer and more complex is way more fun in 4e with lots to do. In Advanced your magic user has access to a few limited spells that were memorized for that day & fighters attack over and over with the same weapon dealing damage (usually with no other effects) until a monster is killed. A natural 20 isn’t even a critical it doesn’t do extra damage or give any advantage beyond scoring the hit.
I think if my 4e play group decided to try AD&D for a session they would be off it faster than kobold’s head when a vorpal sword is swinging around!!
Have you made up any characters yet? Do you have a play group set up?
Yeah, I am fairly new to 4th edition but from what I have been seeing so far is that it way opens things up for more different options for non-casters to have things to do besides just the usual, Ill Attack... Ill Attack.., Ill Attack.. that goes on over and over again. I was talking to a friend that was giving me the usual "its an MMO" argument but I just don't get that. for one if its being played with minis and stuff it would be more like a turned based strategy game, and second how can mor options make it less interesting, I mean my arguments are purely theoretical at this point i haven't had a chance to play it yet, i didn't climb down this rabbit hole tell a couple of weeks ago but damn sense i started reading these rules I am super impressed and have already spent like a couple a hundred bucks grabbing all the rules from it, and I intent on spending quite a bit more. This has been the first time I have gotten ahold of a version of D&D and been all I MUST HAVE EVERYTHING.4e really is an amazing creature, its a shame it was so maligned.
I feel that the early editions of the game were really a DMs game. The DM had a lot of say in how fun the experience was. Most of the gameplay rules for AD&D are in the DMG, not the PHB where we find them today. The players were at the mercy of the DM's mood/ability.
The evolution of the game has shifted the responsibility to the players. Give the players the tools to make interesting characters so that they are in control. Instead of the player asking to do something and hoping the DM says 'yes', the player has explicit things they can do and the dice decide how it works out.
The role of the DM is now less about controlling every aspect of the game and more about creating interesting situations for the players to work through.
That is not to say that the DM still is not playing a huge role at the table, but it is very different from those early years.
4e really leaned into this by ramping up all the things that players could do. Even a fighter with a sword is no longer limited to just slashing at an enemy each round. They have a ton of cool things they can do every chance they get. And 4e gives the DM a ton of tools for creating those amazing game situations.